오랜만에 헛소리를 들었더니 피가 끓는다.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlgL2gCCAg0&feature=share


출처를 밝히기 위해서 링크를 적어두지만 굳이 봐서 조회수를 올려줄 필요는 없다.



그렇다. 우리 우주는 아주 작은 입자들로 이루어져 있는데, 원자가 12개의 미립자라는 소리는 6개의 쿼크와 6개의 렙톤인 것 같다. 그런데 그 입자들이 5개의 더 작은 기본입자로 이루어져 있다는 소리는 처음 듣는다.


참고로 나 입자물리학 전공자다.



그 기본단위가 바로 생명전자라고 주장한다. 이게 그냥 종교적인 내용이면 그냥 어떤 종교의 헛소리겠거니 하겠는데, 물리학을 끌어와서 증명하고 있기 때문에 물리학 전공자로서 따지고 넘어갈 수밖에 없다.



소립자를 쪼개는 실험을 아무리 많이 해도 물질 입자를 없애고 에너지만 남기는 실험은 성공하지 못했다. 입자-반입자 충돌시에는 에너지만 남고 사라지지만 이 실험은 입자를 쪼개는 실험이 아니다.



두겹실틈(double slit) 실험을 이스라엘 와이즈만 연구소에서 했다고 하는데.



"실험자가 바라본다"는 조건 하에서는 입자가 두 줄의 자취를 남기고.



"실험자가 바라보지 않는다"는 조건에서는 입자가 여러 줄을 남긴다.



...이건 뭔 소린가.


즉, 입자의 파동성과 입자성이 관찰자의 유무에 따라 달라진다는 뜻이다.


결론적으로 실험자의 '생각과 의도'의 영향을 받는다고 주장한다.



두겹실틈 실험이 인류 과학 역사상에서 가장 아름다웠던 실험이라는 점은 사실이다.




파인만이 이런 말을 했다는 얘기는 들어본적이 없다.




그리고 모든 일은 우리가 원하는대로 이루어진다는 '결론'을 내고 있다.


그냥 만우절 장난이거나, 패러디거나, 시트콤이라면 넘어가겠지만 진지한 글인데 물리학을 왜곡하고 있으면 정말 그냥 넘어갈 수 없는 일이다.


리처드 파인만이 제안하고 21세기에 들어서 진짜로 수행한 두겹실틈 실험에 관한 논문이다.


http://iopscience.iop.org/1367-2630/15/3/033018/article



위의 논문과 비디오를 보면 알겠지만, 간섭무늬를 없애는 것은 구멍 하나를 막았느냐 막지 않았느냐의 차이이지 관찰자가 지켜보고 있느냐 지켜보지 않느냐의 차이가 아니다. 관찰자는 이 실험을 처음부터 끝까지 다 지켜보고 있다.


과학을 이용해서 자신의 주장을 증명하려면 제대로 알고 사용하도록 하자.


참고로 이 실험은 전자가 아니라 그 어떤 입자를 이용해서 수행하더라도 같은 결과가 나온다.

신고
by snowall 2013.10.11 00:58
  • ronaleqc 2013.10.11 08:40 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

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    • snowall 2013.10.11 12:33 신고 EDIT/DEL

      이거 스팸인데, 스팸 내부에서 자동으로 문장을 어떻게 생성하는지 다 드러나 있어서 보존하기 위해 살려둔다.

  • 1 2014.01.23 15:04 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    snowall님 혹시 what the bleep do we know 라는 양자역학 동영상 알고 계신가요? 거기에도 더블슬릿 실험을 예로 들면서 관찰자가 파동을 입자로 바꾼다는 얘기를 하는데요. 그럼 그건 다 거짓말인건가요?

    • snowall 2014.01.24 15:30 신고 EDIT/DEL

      안봤지만 뻔하네요.
      그런 주장들은 과학의 범주를 벗어나 있고, 과학적으로 다룰 수 없습니다.
      과학적인 답을 원하신다면, 답은 거짓입니다.

    • snowall 2014.01.24 15:39 신고 EDIT/DEL

      http://atheism.kr/bbs/board.php?bo_table=freeboard&wr_id=43044 참고요.

    • 1 2014.01.24 18:07 신고 EDIT/DEL

      감사합니다.

  • 궁금궁금 2014.02.17 07:57 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    물은 답을 알고있다
    라는 책 아시나요?
    생명전자 주장하는 사람들은 이 책도 엮어서 말하던데
    그럼 이 책 내용도 다 개소린가요??

    긍정적인 말과 부정적인 말 들려줬을 때
    물 결정 모양이 다른 건
    목소리의 떨림 같은 게 다르니까 이해하는데

    사랑합니다라고 써진 종이를 물컵에 붙였을 때랑
    죽일놈?이였나 이런 말 써놨을 때랑 결정을 비교했을 때는
    이건 무슨 원리지 싶었거든요.

    이 책이 주장하는 논리에도 헛점이 있나요?

    • snowall 2014.02.17 09:55 신고 EDIT/DEL

      그 책에는 논리에 헛점이 있는게 아니라 논리가 없습니다.

    • 궁금궁금 2014.02.18 05:11 신고 EDIT/DEL

      처음에 초딩 때 이 책을 학교에서 알려줬는데 와 정말 신기하당ㅋㅋㅋ
      이러면서 믿었 거든요.
      시간이 많이 지난 후에도 계속 믿었던 거 같아요.
      귀찮으시겠지만 왜 엉터리인지
      자세히 좀 알려주세요.
      진실을 알고싶어요

    • snowall 2014.02.18 09:41 신고 EDIT/DEL

      긍정적인 생각을 갖고 사는거야 누가 말리겠어요. 좋은거죠.
      근데 그 책에 나온 실험이나 주장에 대해 논문으로 나온 것도 없고, 누가 검증실험을 한 것도 없어보이네요. 과학적인 실험이라면 실험 절차를 상세히 따르는 한 누구나 재현 가능해야 하는데 그런 종류의 실험도 아닌 것으로 보이고요.
      http://mirror.enha.kr/wiki/%EB%AC%BC%EC%9D%80%20%EB%8B%B5%EC%9D%84%20%EC%95%8C%EA%B3%A0%20%EC%9E%88%EB%8B%A4
      http://www.todayhumor.co.kr/board/view.php?table=humorbest&no=269617

      이 글들을 읽어보시면 도움이 될 겁니다.

  • 고슬링 2015.04.18 15:58 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    왜 님이 직접 이런 이야기들이 거짓이란걸 증명 못하세요?? 타인의 의견만 빌려오고...

    • snowall 2015.04.20 22:34 신고 EDIT/DEL

      그래서 제가 물리학을 연구하고 있는 대학원생입니다만...

  • 고슬링 2015.04.18 15:58 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    왜 님이 직접 이런 이야기들이 거짓이란걸 증명 못하세요?? 타인의 의견만 빌려오고...

  • Ab 2017.01.07 21:12 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    전자의 파동성이라는 말자체에 입자성을 포함하는것인가요 확률(파)라는 개념에도 입자성이 포함되나요 간섭무늬는 두 슬릿 사이 크기인가 입사선의 파장인가요?

    • snowall 2017.01.08 23:05 신고 EDIT/DEL

      파동성과 입자성은 서로 배타적인 용어이지만, 흥미롭게도 우리가 사는 우주는 두가지 성질을 동시에 가진 대상들만 존재하고 있습니다. 다만 보는 관점에 따라서 다른 현상이 나타나는 것이죠. 간섭무늬는 두 슬릿의 간격과 입자가 가지는 파장에 따라 달라집니다.

  • Ab 2017.01.07 21:24 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    물리학적인지 모르겠지만 양자적현상 수식등을 이해하려면 이해하려는 사고자체가 양자적특성 즉 띄엄띄엄하거나 확률적이거나 도약상태여야 모순없다 생각됩니다만 맞는지요

    • snowall 2017.01.08 23:06 신고 EDIT/DEL

      양자역학을 이해하는 방식은 사람마다 다를 겁니다. 양자역학을 이해하고 싶다고 해서 사고방식 자체를 양자적으로, 또는 띄어띄엄하게 해야 하는 것은 아닙니다.
      또한, 양자역학이 어떤 띄엄띄엄 떨어져 있는 대상만을 설명하는 것도 아니고요.

  • Ab 2017.01.09 11:27 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    양자이론수식이 어떻게 유도됐는지 모르며 도약이 요소이며 경험과 잘맞아 그 수식을 사용하는게 아닌가요 물리원리가 대개 그렇게 제안됐는데 비로서 양자이론으로 설명되는것 아닌가요 특히 새롭게만드는 양자이론 수식에 그 띄엄띄엄한 개념을 필수적 능동적으로 사용한것으로 이해하면 안될까요

    • snowall 2017.01.09 14:44 신고 EDIT/DEL

      양자도약은 양자역학의 여러 해석중에 하나이지 양자역학의 본질적인 것은 아닙니다.

  • Ab 2017.01.09 11:54 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    현재는 변하므로 변화하는 물리현상을 예측 미래가 결정되는 유일한 방법은 물리수식과 독립된 물리현상이어야 물리수식이 그나마 타당성이 보장되지 않나요
    물리수식에 의해 새로운 물리현상 경험이 나타날거란 뜻입니다

    • snowall 2017.01.09 14:44 신고 EDIT/DEL

      수식이 경험을 바꿀 수는 없습니다.

  • Ab 2017.01.10 01:23 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    감사합니다 궁금한것은 그 복잡한 양자물리수식에 양자현상이라는 개념이 확실하고 분명하게 사용돼있느냐 입니다 아니면 그 수식이 양자현상을 나타내보이는 수단인가요

    • snowall 2017.01.11 14:00 신고 EDIT/DEL

      양자현상이 구체적으로 뭔지 모르겠지만, 양자도약이나 불연속성 같은 것들을 이야기 한다면, 그것은 수식의 결과와 관측 결과이지 양자역학에서 수식을 구축하면서 도입한 개념은 아닙니다.

  • Ab 2017.01.13 08:43 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    그럼 양자개념보다 더 근본적인 개념이 있습니까 불확정성원리도 불연속현상을 인정한 결론일텐데요 플랑크상수보다 더작은 에너지값을 가질수 없나요 파동에서 정상파만 존재할테고 우주크기 파장이 최저 에너지다.. 이런겁니까 잘몰라서 또 질문드립니다

    • snowall 2017.01.13 12:32 신고 EDIT/DEL

      불확정성원리는 불연속성을 함의하지 않습니다. 둘은 별개이고요.
      플랑크상수는 에너지 단위가 아니므로 에너지와 비교할 수 없습니다.
      파장이 에너지와 직접적으로 반비례한다고 하면 우주의 크기에 해당하는 파장이 우주에서 존재 가능한 가장 작은 에너지의 파장이 되겠네요. 하지만 현재 우주의 크기가 불확실해서 그게 구체적으로 얼마나 작은 에너지인지 정확히 알기는 어렵겠죠.

  • Ab 2017.01.13 19:54 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    빛 파장이 우주크기면 진동수가 1보다 작아 광자에너지는 프랑크상수값보다 작은 건가요 광자에너지는 어떤값이든 가질 수 있나요

    • snowall 2017.01.13 23:24 신고 EDIT/DEL

      플랑크상수는 각운동량의 단위라서 에너지랑 직접 비교할 수 없습니다. 빛의 에너지가 양자화되어 있다는 것은 그 크기이지 파장에 대한 이야기가 아니고요. 좀 더 자세한 내용은 양자역학을 공부하셔야 할 것 같은데요...

  • Ab 2017.01.14 08:16 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    에너지= 플랑크상수X진동수 이 부분 질문인데요 빛의 진동수는 정수만 허용되는게 아닌것 같아 그럽니다

    • snowall 2017.01.14 10:55 신고 EDIT/DEL

      자유공간에서 빛의 진동수는 어떤 것이든 허용되죠. 이론을 전개할 때 빛의 진동수나 파장에 제약을 주는 경우는 시간적, 공간적인 제약이 있는 경우입니다.

  • Ab 2017.01.14 08:20 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    수업료 받으시고 가르쳐주시지요 ㅎ

    • snowall 2017.01.14 10:54 신고 EDIT/DEL

      191-034222-02-201 우리은행 남기환, 시간당 10만원입니다.

  • 이뿡찌닝 2017.08.31 04:13 신고 ADDR EDIT/DEL REPLY

    아! 정말 고맙습니다. 관찰자 효과를 우연히 알게 되고 도저히 이해가 안되고 멘붕이어서 일주일간 계속 검색만 해 댔는데, 개구라 였군요 ㅠㅠ. 도대체 이런 쓸데없는 헛소리를 하는 사람은 무슨 의도일까요 ㅠㅠ